John Orr's notes of his interview with CHRIS CAIN

Feb. 22, 1992

(His bedroom in San Jose, parents house, sitting on the bed. Stuff all over the floor -- books, magazines, cassette tapes, headphones, clothes, and more.)

You've met B.B. King, you've opened for him, right?

Yeah, he's so awesome man, he's the nicest cat in the world

I got scrap books of pictures of times I've met these guys, they're all so nice, Albert King, B.B. King, Albert Collins.

He -- Albert Collins -- took my dad on his bus, says, come here, he puts on this video tape of me jammin' with him. And my dad's like, "HE's got a video tape of YOU!"

He's got that look .. right away he got that look, and right away he got that look ... I just kept on playing and he just loves it.

He comes out of his bus and he says "Come here boy" -- he's slappin' his belly -- "I'm gonna spank you!" "Come here, son." He's funny.

Albert King ... B.B. King, that guy's the ultimate gentleman. I saw him come in the Handy Awards and there was just a ball of people around him, he's so cordial ... all night long. I saw him at Paul Masson and he says "Come on in, drink some wine." I don't know, the bigger guys, the major guys, are the nicest ones I've met ... Junior Walker ..

BIOGRAPHICAL

Christopher Clade Cain

I don't even know (where "Clade" came from). This is the first time I've copped to it in about 30 years

... believe me ... 36 years old ... birthday is Nov. 19, 1955.

Tell me about growing up here.

Well, we lived over there off Alum Rock ... near the hot dog stand ... East San Jose, like on the east side, then moved here on this block, this is where I grew

up. Lived across the street, then moved here ... this room hasn't changed much

since I was in high school.

(Blues harpist) Andy (Just) just came in here and he said "God, you've still got the same cobwebs.'' I don't know, I'm kinda partial to them.

You grew up in a house full of records.

Yeah, my parents, man, their record collection is like the Smithsonian.

When my brothers and I were little, we'd always go to the civic auditorium, because that's where all the big cats would play, you know, the civic auditorium, and you know, every time Ray Charles would come, we'd never miss Ray, and we'd never miss Johnny Otis, and we'd never miss B.B. King.

And Fats Domino we saw, and we were little, you know, but our parents were never, my parents just kind of ... it wasn't like they were saying, "Now, check this out." I knew we were gonna go to tacos after or something, that's what I was looking forward to, but in the meantime the blind cat on piano was wailin', and I kind of caught it ... but yeah, now I say "YEAH, I SAW IT, I SAW IT."

I mean, B.B. King one time ... it was like my fifth birthday or something, third birthday ... I was little -- my dad took me to the front of the stage .. B.B. had a process -- that's when he had the band with the band fronts and everything, and uh, it was my birthday and my dad takes me up to the front of the stage and tells B.B. it's my birthday, and he gets me up on stage and he holds me up and goes "Hey, it's his birthday, everybody!"

And he goes, "What would you like to hear?" He goes, "What do you want me to play?" I'll never forget it. And I go, "Rock 'n' roll." I'll never forget it. And the band kicked in and started playing, and man, it scared the -- I mean I started crying, I was like YAHHHHH!! He gave me back to my dad.

I saw him at Winterland one time, and I was telling my pals, "Tch, I was on stage with B.B. when I was like, three." Please! So I tell B.B. "Well, this one time,'' and B.B. is "I don't recall it.'' (GREAT imitation of B.B.) ... It's so funny, my dad took me up to the stage ...

They took me to see Jimi Hendrix when he first came ... my mom took me to see the Rolling Stones when they first debuted, the Byrds were opening up, took me to see the Beatles, Credence Clearwater ... my dad took me up to the light platform ...

They're just really big music, like, fans. They listen to all kinds of stuff, so it's just always in the house, there is always music.

Mom is Georgia Cain, dad is Walter Fields.

He's my real dad ... no, they're just not married. Been together for at least 45 years ... they were, like, the modern couple, way ahead of their times ... kind of nutty in them days, believe me. I can remember a few little altercations ... one time the police pulled them over, thought my dad was kidnapping my mom ... seeing a black cat with a white lady ...

What was it like?

It's funny, 'cause you know I've got, like, relatives in L.A. that are like black brothers, and it's just funny. I'm in the middle ... I'm like a spy for both camps ... I mean, I'll be, like, somewhere, and a person will come up to me and go, "Damn! You know, you sound just like a nigger!" And I'll go (shrugs) "Hmmn, wow," or, like, you know, they'll come up and go, "Man, you know, for a Jew, you really...'' you know, the funniest thing you hear. You know it's just that's the thing that I hate ... I don't know what they think, but you'll get like black people, like I've had a guy who's from the blues society in Atlanta, and he goes "You know, for a Jew, you know, I can't understand where you get that voice." I go, "Well, you know, my dad's black," and he goes "Hah! I knew it! I knew it,' and I go "But what does it matter? I mean, you know, if I was like green."

There's not a lot of young black guys right now that are really -- except Robert Cray, there's not any guys really carrying on the tradition. Uh, there's some guys in Chicago, but they're never gonna be ... they're gonna be like playing in Chicago.

It's like, there's not a lot of cats. They're doing rap. I mean, there's no dough in, like, blues.

It's like would you like to work in McDonald's, or do you wanna rather, like, sell crack and make a zillion bucks this week ... they get so hung up on this whole thing ...

I mean, it works, in a double way.

'Cause sometimes, when we come into places, like in the South and stuff, and they say "Hah. They from California, and they're gonna play some blues, too. Yeah. I gotta see this." And everybody like this (strikes pose) ... and as soon as we start playing, they're like, "OH!" and it's like some kind of magic trick like they push some button, that thing. ... That works good sometimes, but it's just ridiculous. You know, it's like I didn't really realize how much people just get hung up behind that whole thing of like you know, "This white boy, he can play some blues ... I mean, if you're playing it, and you're playing it right.

You know, I mean, if they didn't see you, they wouldn't even trip like that, I don't think. The cats in Norway said we were gonna have you at our festival, but we looked at your album cover and said -- I said "Don't listen to the cover! You know, listen to the tunes!" They did a review in Audio magazine and the guy goes, "If you look at this record cover, it's very deceiving, because he looks like" .. nehhhh, and it's this other thing, you know, so don't judge it by the look. And it's, like, its just crazy to me, I don't understand why they even trip like that

I don't think they trip like that on any other type of music. I mean, there's black guys playing country and western, and nobody trips on that .. it's stupid.

Blues isn't just old black guys from Mississippi.

And you know, the record companies, they think it's just this one style thing -- dun tu dun tu dun -- and that's it -- I mean, there's about 6 million styles of blues, I mean, its like, you know, it's so funny. Everyone speaks English, but you go to a different region of the country and they all got a little different twang. You know, you got your jump blues, you got your Chicago blues, your Texas blues ... there's so many different variations, and it's all beautiful but people just get locked in that one thing they think it is.

Are you finding this attitude just among fans, or musicians, too?

Well, no, the musicians ... that's the beauty of the thing -- they're all ... I find among blues musicians especially, they're not really as competitive as other types of musicians ... like you play jazz, I mean, jazz guys, jazz guys are out to just, like, slay each other, it's like eda-da-eda-da-eda-da (machine gun sound)and blue musicians seem to be more like, "Hey!" You be out on the road and see like, Little Charlie or something, and say "Hey! What's happening?" ... They're all kinda doing the same thing and they kind of support each other ... "Hey, I know a killer restaurant over here ..."

It's great, you know? It's a gas!

That's about the only time you get to see the guys, 'cause they're always working, and you're always working, so then if you show up at a festival then there they all are and it's one big hoop-de-doo, and it's "Hey!" It's awesome.

What was it like to be the child of black and white parents when you were really little?

To me, I didn't know any different ... I think it was really excellent.

Trouble at school?

That kind of stuff would come into the picture, but it wasn't until I was really in high school till I kind of had a little thing in my mind, I got so militant ... well, just like, I would hear people say things, people would think I was Mexican or something, and they would say things, and I would be like a spy for the CIA or something ... so they're talking things, like this or that, it's like an electric prod going into you (jumps around.) They'd bring the big N and I'm like (jump) militant right away.

My childhood was beautiful. I wish I could just go back and do it all again. The pad was always full of love, happiness, music ... my parents, they spoiled me rotten, basically. Anything we ever wanted I mean, Dad and Mom, made it happen ...

Still here, you know, here I am pushin' forty, and here I am still in my crib ... they gonna throw me out! ``Get out!''

I was a goof-up in school, I went to my last year of high school, then dropped out two days, like, before time to graduate. You know: Mr. Rebel. I don't know ... I got a head like granite.

You are extremely bright.

My folks are really something special. Anything good that comes out of me is them, and then the bad stuff is mainly me.

When did you start playing guitar and singing?

When I was little, Dad had a guitar ... he was playing guitar ... (grabs guitar, shows it to me) ... this is the one I had ... this other one they bought me at the flea market ... had four strings ... I was playing Beatle songs, then they got me a six-string that was in tune and I couldn't play a note, it was like, "Well, Hello?"

Acoustic, steel string, Stella kind of thing. I was 9 or 10. Then they were gonna get me lessons, guy from San Jose State ... He spent a hour and a half showing me how to hold the pick and the guitar and I went to my parents and told my parents, ``Is it OK if, like, I don't work with this guy no more?"

It's like, can I just do it on my own? So he split and I just got into the records and that was like the beginning of the end, you know? I mean, they had all these records, it was just like there was no escape. I mean, B.B. King was flying.

All of a sudden, ... I saw Sammy Varela. He's a year older and a grade above me, but when we were in high school ... I had a birthday party once when I was in 6th or 7th grade, 'cause I got the first Monkees album and a Twister game. So that had to be around then ... and Sammy was in the band that played at my birthday party. And then, years later, we were in high school, and they had this thing called Raider holiday, and there's Sammy, playing the blues, with this band, with Dave Chavez on bass and stuff I mean just blew my doors off!

I came home and I said, "You won't believe this! Sammy is at school, he's playing, I mean, he's playing the hell out of the thing! I gotta do that! I've GOT to do that! I mean, that's the thing, right there! I go, "Dad, that's the deal, that right there. I mean, I'd been goofing around on it at home, but when I saw that, I go, "That's it, that's it right there, that's the goods." So then I started hanging with Sammy, and you know I had all my parents records, I just always would sit and try to copy solos all the time. I would come home from school and would just do that for hours. It's like, I just couldn't get enough of that. Ruined all the records, you know ... finally figured out some of those licks ... and then I was in a band with Sammy, it was a gas. I'll never forget, through him I met Gary Smith, and you know, he was like MAJOR, and ya know, the big mamoo ... I was, like, 18, and he was playing at the Bodega and Sammy wanted me to substitute for him and it was like playing for Count Basie or something, the Bodega, man! Made it big time, Jack! I was 18 or 19.

I used to go to Sammy's house. Hang for hours, talk about Bloomfield, and B.B. --- just talk about B.B. for, like, months, we'd be imagining what he as doing ... and we just, you know ... nuts! 'Cause, you know, in high school, it was, like, disco fever ... that blues thing just wasn't cuttin' it, you know ... we were like WAY out, just some strange kids, you know, teenagers into this blues thing. I mean it was ... I don't know. Thank God I met these other cats who were into it too. I mean it was just like we had this little pocket of guys who were just .. nutty. I mean, I used to go to these parties -- disco be flying, the Commodores -- I'd put Mose Allison on. Talk about starting a riot! One time a guy was coming at me With a quart bottle of beer because I put Mose Allison on ... kind of broke up the dancing.

The 70's were like death to blues.

Nowhere to play. There was no blues clubs then. You might find a pizza place or something ... there was a place, Ricardo's, in, like, Campbell or Cupertino, where they would play, Sammy, you know, there would be some blues, but there was nowhere to play ... I just said I will not play top 40 .. there was money to made doing that, but there was just no way I could do it. I tried it for about 15 minutes and I almost lost my mind, you know, so I just played in my room all the time, and everybody thought I was nuts. They'd say, ``He's gonna be in his room for the rest of his life. He's crazy.''

Next thing you know, you turn around, here comes Stevie Ray Vaughn, here comes Robert Cray, all this stuff. BOING! The cellar door opens up, everybody goes ``Wow! That's cool music, what is it?'' It's blues, it's, I don't know, about a zillion years old, it's been around forever, ya know? And now every time you turn on a commercial there's a harmonica in the background. It's a gas ... I'm just glad that, I mean, those guys are like the key that opened up the door and then like, JJ's, now there's a place to play, you know? But I remember when there was no place to play any blues. You try and you'd be in some big trouble. People say, ``I don't think we're gonna pay you!'' It was so stupid.

I don't know why that disco thing ... then they got this thing where live music was out! They'd go, ``We got DJ's now, so live music's like dead meat!'' I don't understand it ... I mean you got your DJ, you got your record ...

Other guys in blues crowd?

Sammy Varella, Bob Ortiz, the bass player's bass player, Dave Serrano was playing drums ... we go back to kindergarten, Dave and I. Those cats ... then we met the cats on the west side ... a pad, one house -- Kevin Coggins, great guitar player, Larry Cali -- that guy, he's a monster, that guy was brilliant ... that where I met Andy (Just) ... the whole blues crowd, the west side guys ... all these guys playing around ... Gary Smith was playing .. Marc Ford, killer band -- Kenny Baker was in that ... Mike Mongello, a great guitar player, Michael Osborn was playing -- man he was killin! I mean, he's just a phenomenal guitar player and I mean the first first time I heard him I just said `` Geez! I mean, Mr. Tone." You know, he just blew my doors off when I saw him. It's just all these guys were flying. It was a gas when I could finally get in the clubs. I was just stunned ... the first time I heard Robben (Ford) just was .. a little frightening ... about 1972, it was, right when the Charles Ford Band was breaking up ... it was their last gig and I mean I never heard anything like that in my life. And the way he was playing the guitar .. the tone he had, his lines. I mean, I was, like, boom, the B.B. King school, kind of school and he was playing something like a saxophone or something to me ... the lines he was playing, all the changes, I said ``Huh! I quit. That's it. No more guitar for me, buddy. That's out.'' you know. Just those guys just killed me. There's like millions of guys ... You know, you got Rene Solis. That guy, he's not only the nicest guy in the world, he's like, a killer (guitarist)!

Do you think the Bay Area, our South Bay, is particularly cool for blues compared to the rest of the nation?

From what I've seen in the nation, they got like this blues club. One blues club. Here, they've got a lot of straight blues clubs, more than anyplace else, except for maybe Memphis, or something like that ... in Atlanta, they got two blues clubs -- Blind Willie or Blues Harbor, you either play one or the other ... but there's tons of places to play around here ... I mean, basically you could just live in San Jose and work for the rest of your life and you would never have to travel ... there's enough places to play, really.

Wouldn't make much money.

Not really the money as much as you once you get with the record company, they want you to move the records, and you've just got to get out and do the legwork and then you play and they haven't heard of you and then they like you and then the next time you go back there are more people are there and about the fifth time out, people are waiting for us to come. And that's the cool deal about traveling. We go to Philadelphia now, and I Mean, people are acting like "YAH!!"

It's just so funny, 'cause where you live people just hear you all the time and they say yeah, "This is great" (very small voice).

People here go nuts for you.

Nah ... everybody believed me ... I couldn't believe there was that many people at the club -- JJ's -- I keep thinking, that was a fluke, but then next week there they are again ...

Always packed for your shows.

I don't understand it. I think it's that ROBERT CRAY FREE sign I put out front. BOB CRAY LIVE FREE. NO charge, free beer. And then lock the door.

(Some chat about Richard Cousins, erstwhile bass player for Robert Cray.)

I saw you at a JJ's Blues Festival, at the fairgrounds. You looked like a nervous wreck. But you gave a great performance. I was amazed by the scales you were hitting.

I learned everything by ear. I could copy anything, I could hear it and I just had a knack for figuring it out; but I didn't know what I was doing. I could do it, but I didn't know what it was I was doing. Then I saw Robben Ford at Guitar Explosion in Berkeley . T-Bone Walker, Shuggie Otis -- all these people and they would all have to play with this same trio ... it was like this jazz trio. and I mean, like, the blues cats would come out, and I could just see, if you couldn't communicate with the band ... you just were stuck. They were just getting by with a shuffle and a slow blues. Robben comes out and goes (whisper) whisper) and they kick into this thing, into this incredible tune (very animated). I'm going ``that's the goods, right there! You gotta learn that music talk! I don't know what this lingo is, Jackie, but homie knows it and told Pete and right away -boom- they some out with, like, this suite! That's the goods.''

So I went to city college and studied with Dave Eschelman. (SP?) Got into big band, jazz improv, finally ended up doing a kind of teacher aide thing in improv class .. that when I figured out what I was doing, what it was called

Dave's an awesome cat, man.

Jazz band ... they'd have guest soloists, so we got to play with all these cats .. and they'd say, you know, it was real encouraging ... I wish I could be going to school right now .... was in a clarinet quartet ... just couldn't get enough ...

Guitar, piano, clarinet ...?

I dabble in that stuff. Guitar, I play. My clarinet teacher, he was a monster. I used to sneak a tape recorder in, just so when he'd be warming up ...it sounded like water ... He'd say, "Christopher, are you still playing GOD's instrument?"

His band

Noel (Catura, great sax player) is the original cat ... Noel's there since the beginning, a glutton for punishment, I'll tell you.

Watching you guys play ... everybody looks like they're having a good time ..

Yeah, they do ...

They also look real proud of what they're doing ...

They work hard, those guys, they're nuts ... 'cause, I mean, like, I said, "No dough, I guarantee you. Ya know we're probably not gonna have a lot of jobs." But they said ``OK,'' (laughs) I mean, right there! Ya know, but I mean, they do, that's basically the first priority in the whole thing. I mean, I get real neurotic, I'm like, "Is it too loud?"

Robert (Higgins, drummer) will say "Hey baby! Have fun! He live, babe, Cain, have fun!" For the first album, we went in the studio ... we had fifths of tequila ...one thing about this band, when we're not on the road or we're not playing we always go everywhere together ... we just hang when we're not playing. I've not really seen many bands do that ... it's a different thing than the norm.

Where is career going ... how do you feel?

It's just a break-even kind of deal, but you get to see a lot of nice places and I'm living at home ... other cats in the band, they gotta do a day job to pull it off. I just gotta like, pay for beer or whatever .. you can see I don't spend a lot of money on wardrobe.

You always wear a nice suit on stage ...

I got two -- the gray one and the law suit ...

Your mom told me you're a worrier ... I saw you at San Jose, you looked miserable ... but are you?

I swear ... yeah, I worry about everything. WHY I don't ... 'cause I want it to be good ... I guess I'm my own worst critic ... I hate everything I do (laughs) -- I know what I was trying to do, but it never quite comes out like I want it ...

The other day at the studio, the guys are saying, "Come on, gee," and I go, "Come on, let's try it again." They didn't even know what I was hearing that I didn't like. I mean, I stayed on this bass thing for about a month. "Take 80."

Must be a hard way to live, if you're never happy with what you're doing

Well, sometimes there will be times when I'll go, "YEP! That's the shit! Ya know, like I'll cop to it if I do ... It's not that I hate it, it's that I think I'm just so worried what everybody else thinks it sounds like ... I mean I just want everybody to like it and if I see one person sitting there like (makes a face), right away I'll go (folds up), oh, geez, they hate it, they really do ... I just get ... Higg will be on the drums, says ``Cain! WHAT are you doing? You're fine baby, you're fine." I gotta keep looking at him, saying "You're fine, babie, you're fine." That's why you always see me lookin at him. I'll say "How we doing?" And he's, "You're fine, babe, blow, blow!"

He's funny.

Where does that come from?

I don't know. I guess you just want it to be good, ya know?

Who are you trying to please?

It's not really that ... I just want to play it right and .. you know I don't ... it Might be too loud and ... you know I don't ... I just want it to be right.

Are you as demanding of the guys in the band?

Well, I mean, fun is the first deal. But, you know, I can be kind of a pain in the ass, 'cause I just have to have it just THAT way. I mean, it can only go so far before I have to say, "Nehhh. That ain't happenin'. If it's, like, too loud or something, I'll raise hell and I don't want a debate about it, like, "Hmmmn. Really?"... I have been known to be just a little cranky when it comes to that kind of stuff.

Is this a collaborative process, or is it just you saying, "do it this way"?

No, no, it's definitely a collaborative thing ... basically, I just bring some tunes, and say "These are some tunes, and you know, do your thing on them ..."

It's the best band I've ever played with .. basically, there's nothing I could bring that we couldn't do. You know, we could play jazz if wanted to, we could just bop all night if we wanted to, 'cause all the guys can play that, and so it just makes it so mellow, because there's no governor on it. It's just like, "What do you want to do? Ya know? Basically, we just play the stuff we really like ... a lot of times they're obscure tunes ... people think they're original, but they're just some obscure tunes ..

They work really hard ...

I remember times when cats came in the band ... when Robert came in the band, he'd been in a fusion band, hadn't played a lot of blues .. and we were playing at the Hyatt ... like a disco, like two people in there .. bartender and waitress and two people come in and they come up after a tune, and ask for disco, and Higg stands up and he says `OK, baby, see that sign over there? It says exit, you go right up there and they're playing that shit all night!''

And I'm going, "OK, he's converted, he's a blues guy ... like one time we're playing "My Mood" or something, real soft, and these people are talking, and he's going, "SHUT UP! He's playing over here!'' Converted! He's converted, ya know??

They're a riot, those guys.

Are you gonna be a big blues star, like B.B. King?

Oh, no, I just don't see that happening. I mean, there are a zillion guys who play great. I'm just working, just another one of these guys. I mean, it's gone much further that what I had planned. The only reason we made the first album was so we could get some jobs around down ... just to get some jobs ...

Next thing you know, we're in Belgium; like, what's happening? We're on A plane.

(Agent) Tom Gold came into the picture, next thing you know we're in Belgium ... then it snowballed ... next thing you know, and this lady's following us around with a camera.. I mean way, way more stuff ... met all these nice people, saw more places than if I were in the Marines or something.

Played New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, all the East Coast stuff, Cleveland, the South, Memphis, out there ... Jackson, Miss., Oxford, Miss. ...

Dick Waterman?

He was really nice ... he was a gas ... told me to go down to the blues archives at the University of Mississippi. They had B.B. King's record collection in there, they had some really cool stuff.

I like the South, like playing there, I really do. I love Memphis. We played Atlanta ...

Best place in America to play?

Memphis is at the top of my list. B.B. King's place. Those people treat you like you ARE B.B. King. Last time we were there, six days ... when we left, I was crying ... everybody in the club signed a card, broke me up

Outside Border?

Switzerland, Norway, Belgium, Canada

Roomful of Blues have helped us get gigs. They sign up, say they want Cain to open for them ... all those cats are just so nice.

(Talking about his first album, "Late Night City Blues," and his second album.)

What's the new record gonna be like?

Uh, man, I'm tellin' ya, it's gonna be I ... I just … this time I just decidedI'd do what I wanted to do, what I really felt like playing. The second time out I was worried about what everybody wanted to hear ..ya know , which is cool, but I figured this time if I play pay what I really feel, I think people might like it. That's the concept I'm going with, and there's like a lot of different stuff on there, I mean, this stuff is , I don't know, it may be too , uh I don't know .. we got one tune on there, um, it's an instrumental thing, it's like a Stanlye Turrentine .. like uh, man a mind stroll thing, everybody blows with this like, head, like you know, everybody blows solos, definitely a jazz thing, you know .. and got some deep blues on there, like REALLY, you know, I went for this one thing, a almost like a T-bone .. totally T-Bone kind of thing, which is different than the way I normally play … I was just totally mimicking like a T-bone deal, you know. Right now we're just experimenting with stuff like that, but there's gonna be a lot of different things on there, still like the style of the band, but just, you know, it's like, this aim .. experimenting in the laboratory. The guys form Blind Pig might say ``I don't thinks so.''

They're business guys, ya know .. they're out of sight they've been great.

"Cuttin' Loose" has done …

It did pretty good (voice )I haven't seen any cash .. I got one check for, like, 150 bucks on day, that was, like, my big one. All the others were, like $8.62, $6.50. Most of of them I don't cash. $13.

Frame 'em, put on the wall.

I'm trying to get some of my publishing right back.

(Stuff about that; trying to get rights back.)

I'm happy that I can even put my stuff out. I was standing in a pizza place in Berkeley and one of the tunes came on. We almost fell over, man it blew my doors off. I went to Pennsylvania and …

the writing thing, and the record thing, you have to travel. There's no way around that

How do you feel about the traveling?

Oh, you know, I've gotten to the point where I can do it. I mean, at first I Couldn't do it at all. I mean, I never have hardly been out of this room. For Like, in about 30 years. I mean, the bathroom is about as far as I got. You know? So, when we first started traveling I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't go to the bathroom, I couldn't do nothin'. Ya know, it was just just freakin' me out.

Now. Ptth. I can't wait to do laundry, yeah, let; do laundry. Big day! Couple of tall cans of Bud and some Bounce! Put the clothes in there ..

I got it down pat now. I know what to do. I mean, before, I;d leave my clothes laying all over, then it'd be time to check out, wake up with a hangover, I've got to pack now ... no. Now I go home after the gig, pack my clothes, put my suitcase by the door and then I go to bed.

Tell me about you and drinking.

You know, I never used to drink at all. I mean, two beers and I'd be sick. I started playing with the band, we had no singer, we had no front man. And somebody had to be like, `Thank you, thank you very much, say some stuff, ya know. My mom says, ``You know, you get around two people and you can't even talk, you're so shy, then you stand in front of two thousand people and you're like …''

But that cat's a whole different guy! That guy, cat, he like has the world beat. On the mike, he's like a world beater. On the mike, he's dialed! I mean, me ... the guy is not me. He's in control. I would have to get literally get pretty pounded before I could get up there and say ``Thank you very much.'' I'd have to put the darkest glasses I could find on so I could not see anybody. 'Cause that would just freak me out. I'd see like two people sitting there and go geez, they hate it!'' (little voice) I'd just put blinders on, oh, I … guess it's going OK, I haven't been hit by anything ... one of the nutty things, I mean, you work in a bar and ya know and there's been time when I would drink ... I used to be real good at it ... Now I have my moments, OK, but just one of those nutty things. I like my beers now and then.

First time I saw you, in Santa Rosa …

Studio Cafe ... oh yeah, I was hammered ...

Your playing was different … long, sustained notes …

I've been known to just go off in flights of fancy.

In Oslo, I was so unhappy there I mean Norway for a month I was just ``HELP!'' (voice) .. just had it. We were Europed out … So we took the Visa card and went to the bar and I mean we had about 24 of these, uh gin on the rocks ... and I mean, we went to the gig to play, ... and I don't even remember the first set .. and (mentions a name, garbled in notes) was there, my buddy, and he said "you would just play very economically, just you were like duh.... tuh dugh." You kind of look up at the ceiling ... the economical style.

Are you a shy guy in personal life?

Uh, yeah.

What's your personal life like? What do you do?

(Little voice) I watch TV. I got, like, all the Honeymooners, all the Donna Reeds, all the Addams Family all the Warner Brothers cartoons, all my music videos. I just like to just sit at home and watch ...

Father Knows Best. Like that .. Leave It to Beaver, I got all Leave it, Andy Griffith, like that, black and white stuff. Safe TV. Ya know, you can go to bed, put that on, .. safe. Nice. All good. Yeah, I kinda wish I was living in Mayfield . I'm out there. Nick at Night is one of my favorite things. All night long Mr Ed's flying.. they brought that out especially for me. They knew I wanted it.

I don't really… I don't go out and like do much other than maybe go to a movie now and then, buy comic books, that's about it

What comic books?

Anything like the Marvel stuff … what I mainly look for is 4-part miniseries … I'll get those ...

(Spider man, X-Men, Sgt. Fury among his faves.)

(Discussion about the woman he was with at the time.)

Been interviewed much??

No ... I'm surprised that they take the time .. blows my mind

Tell me about the shy guy, how he gets up on stage and does it.

Feels like it... basically if feel like I … don't know. I'm not inhibited anymore. As soon as I get the wood in my hand, like, it's like, I don't know ... It's like a transformation, like that guitar thing, it's cuckoo. As soon as I get the guitar, it's like, DOING! It's like this guy comes out, I don't know, he's a nut. I just love to pay the guitar. Basically I could just play in this room the rest of my life and just have a blast. I mean ... ya know it's like the only reason I really travel and stuff is 'cause I like to play the guitar. I like to … I just like guitar, I like guitar players. I'm more of a fan than I am a player, really. If I had my druthers I'd go watch the many cats around, and most times I can't, 'cause I go there and they're all "There he is!''

Some guitar players are really competitive, they'll do the tune and then they'll split, they don't really come to see you .. I'm always working, so I don't get to see, but I mean, I'd be out every night, checking everybody out (He mentions a bunch of players local to the S.F. Bay area, names garbled in notes.)

How'd you develop your singing voice?

Here's exactly how it happened. When I used to have a band with Andy (Just), They'd never let me sing. I sang with this monotone, it was like my speaking voice, and they'd never let me sing. Wasn't really happening.

Then one night I was at this party -- I got it on tape -- and ya know, had a few drinks, and uh, I went up to sing, and was just kind of bold, and man, this big THING came out of my mouth! Just like this sound BOOM came out of my face, man it was like "The Exorcist" or something! YAHH! This THING came flying out of my face, ya know? And it just, that was it. Wasn't like anything I had to try to do, but every time I opened my mouth, that thing came out. Ya know, it's stupid, I don't understand it ...

How'd you pick the Gibson 335?

My brother, Toody, got a Gibson SG ... I saw `` Woodstock'' and wanted one, just liked the way they looked … had a Les Paul for a long time, then wanted a jazz guitar, then traded for this (garbled)I have now ... after that I saw Robben (Ford), and I wanted a (garbled) guitar, then I saw the dot-necked 335 and I went to Guitar Center and saw one that looked exactly like it and said I gotta have it!''

That's how I buy guitars, I don't even play 'em. It's like THAT! Turned out that was a great piece of wood. Hortense!! She is a good piece of wood. Man, I mean that thing, you can hold notes on that thing without even plugging it in ... the other one, that they gave me, that the company (Gibson) gave me, dot-necked 335 Melba, she just, I don't know, maybe it's that the wood isn't old yet, or she's not come into her own time yet, but she ain't got that thing like Hortense, man. It's like you try to hold notes with Melba -- you could lay on top of the amplifier, she just ain't gonna do it, just ``nah.'' Hortense, no problem, you could be across the room, man you don't even have to play the thing and it just starts coming out. Hortense is a darker kind of tobacco sunburst, Melba is like a light brown

(He has endorsement deal with Gibson, pix on the walls.)

Since then, I haven't gotten a pick ... couldn't get a saddle out these guys I had to spend a lot of dough to try to get Melba more like Hortense, but still it ain't right .. Melba really new. Hortense is about 1980 ... that thing was hanging on the wall over in third street Guitar Center since they opened till they day they closed .. Hortense is like a factory second, good piece of wood, though. Man what a piece of wood ...

Something about those guitars (Gibson 335s), got such a warm sound.

Amplifiers?

Mesa Boogie sat in mom's room for two years, but when I got the Hortense, BINGO, marriage!

I can't play a Fender (guitar); that thing's for like when you're in a canoe, you take a Stratocaster and you go up stream, that's what those things are good for ... and those necks … I go like, go to bend and they go DOing! I need a guitar that's gonna like to wrestle. Hortense, it's like wrestling with Hulk Hogan, that Rosewood neck, but that's what I'm used to .. I get on a Fender I bend off the neck, it's so easy to play, I can't hang ..

And the tone .. I just got have that fat, kind of large tone. The Fender, I just Can't get it ..

What do you have to do for the Gibson deal?

Basically, if anybody ever asks me, I just tell them I play Gibson, but nobody ever asks ..

If they (Gibson) ever wanted me to do whatever it is, I would do it, but they never asked ...

(Discussion of his immediate plans.)

What's the coolest thing about being in the blues?

Meeting all the cats .. all really nice

Belgium in '87, first travel … great beer, boy do they got some great beer in Belgium

Not much of a sight-seer, ya know. Guys are saying, "Here's a church, here's that," but I'm like, "Where's the bar?"

Loves biographies ...

I just got Ronnie Lott's book, man I read that thing in about two days ..

(Has a large collection of Guitar Player magazines.)

Brothers Rex and Tootie …

Those guys .. they are, like, music fanatics. I don't know why, for some reason, I was the one who played … I was the one who got the thing ...

Mom and dad both retired. Mom worked at SJ State in cafeteria, made KILLER milkshakes. Dad was a truck driver ...

What would you want to tell people?

Don't be afraid. Uh, I don't know …

Have you been afraid?

Yeah, I got fear of everything, fear of fear, fear of everything.

I don't know. I'm just one of those people who at the hotel, I'll make the bed, I don't want the maid to be mad ... they think I'm nuts ... I don't want to make anybody upset .. I don't want to make anybody upset. I want everybody to be happy ... I don't know why, I'm just always worried about making somebody unhappy ..

I've kind of mellowed on that. Used to be I couldn't eat in a restaurant, I just didn't want anybody to see me eating .. Now I love to go to restaurants ... I used to go to restaurants with Andy Just, he'd laugh .. I was too bashful to eat in front of people

(Discussion about his room as refuge.)

Duke Jethro … you are maybe the reason he got back to playing.

Well, that's what he says, but I say, hey, he would have played. I almost bought That rap, when he said ``I don't know if I can play again'' the first time I saw him play, I started crying. The guy ... I almost bought the rap, "you almost had me believing you couldn't do it" ... right! . Genius. He is something else.

How'd you recognize him?

He just came in … we were playing in Los gatos, and he says, "I heard this blues coming our the thing." The Atlantis in old Town, and he comes in and sees these young guys playing the thing, and he cam up said, "Hi, I'm Duke Jethro," and I said "DUKE JETHRO! DUKE JETHRO!" I freak out. He said, "How'd you know?" I said, "'Live at the Regal,' 'Blues is King,' should I go on? I've been playing with you as long as B.B. has, on the records." I freaked out. THE Duke Jethro.

Practice?

I might not play guitar for days … play piano every day, then sometimes I'll get on a guitar binge ..mostly like I'll hear something I have to know .. and I've gotta figure it out ...

What's happening with the blues? Where's it going?

I hope it will just continue, that all the cats that play the blues, they'll get recognized. Right now it looks real good. So many great player out there burning up the highways and stuff, working really hard, hope they get recognition.

The audience is, hopefully, getting bigger ..

Is blues music changing?

I think it's like really eclectic. You got guys playing very traditional, they sound like Muddy Waters records, I mean, you can almost hear the scratches, they got it so dialed, you know. And then you got the blues-rock kind of cats. A zillion different things going, all good.

Your influences?

B.B. King, Albert King … I love Albert King. When I go to Memphis he'll come every day, man, we sit for four hours every day and we'll talk, he's just so nice to me. When he would come in I just come in, I would start playing his stuff, and he'd just be beaming, man ... he brought in Otis Clay .. he's just so cool to me .. I mean, ``Hey, son."

(Imitates Albert King's voice) "Man, I'm retired now, I just fish …"

(More chat, shows pictures of him with B.B. King, Albert King, others.)

I love to get photos, you know, I save everything.

Freddy Kong, Michael Bloomfield .. when I was in high school I thought he was the neatest thing that ever happened. We thought Bloomfield was like .. I wanted to BE Michael Bloomfield … Elvin Bishop … forget it about it ... that guy, I saw that guy once for 50 cents. Everybody's best pal, or favorite cousin. Everybody felt like they knowo him. Your old buddy, the way he entertained. Never failed to get the job down, just slay them .. I've seen him where he'd say, "Lock the door, we're gonna play .."

(The tape ends with discussion of a blues benefit he and his band were scheduled to play, as closers. But the gig ended before they could get on stage.)